- Hi TiRAR and thank you very much. I already prepared a quite massive list of further changes that I will apply later today. As for the boombox and the arcade cabinet: Other than the shed, they still are contained in materials.txt as of Alpha 35. The arcade cabinet is listed there as a likely object for the staff room, while the boom box simply is there with no apparent reason. Also, the "Superior Cell" is still in there, requiring a Superior Bed among others. I don't know whether those objects actually will become available to the players, but at least they are there. I don't think we really need articles on them just for the case ... however, they won't harm much, too.
Hi YMS, I hope you're not miffed about my revert on Template:Infobox Menu, but in case of a missing or non existing documentation, there will be a link on the right side to easily create one. And the template stands in the right place already ;) --TiRARdisk 11:38, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
- We don't have articles for every menu button, at least if you count the second-level ones ("Dismantle", "Demolish Walls", "Clear Indoor Area", "Auto Lights"). As a reader I would expect an own article for every one at least at the first level, yes. But as an author, I wouldn't know what to put there that's not already in the now linked Bureaucracy page. --YMS (talk) 14:29, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Suggestion for Quickstart Guide
Hi YMS, I would not recommend including other pages than templates into normal articles - except main page, where the text is written for including exclusively. Because when you're working on a template, normally the first thing you do is to look where it's already included. When editing a normal page then you probably don't (like me ^^). My suggestion on Quickstart Guide and Sandbox Mode is, that we should only link to Create New Prison. Maybe like: Template:SeeAlso. --TiRARdisk 09:12, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, it probably wasn't a good idea. I now made Create New Prison a redirect to Sandbox Mode, where I re-added the contents of that page, because otherwise the Sandbox Mode article would contain only very little information at all but basically the link to the Create New Prison article. In the Quickstart Guide, I re-added the screenshot (so the options can be seen), but removed all descriptions of the options, so we don't have this list duplicated. Most options are pretty clear from their name and/or the tooltip description the game is giving, and imho, new players should try the default options first anyway. If someone wants more information when reading the Quickstart Guide nonetheless, he/she may just follow the link quickly. Is it good like this? --YMS (talk) 11:27, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
- Well, in itself it's a good solution. But maybe we should think about the article Sandbox Mode and the meaning of it. To be honest, it isn't really a Sandbox Mode. It's a game with Winning and Failure Conditions. Do you know if the term Sandbox is used anywhere in the game? To prevent confusion maybe a redirect from sandbox mode to create new prison is a better solution. And maybe this term should be avoided in the articles. What do you think?--TiRARdisk 14:14, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
- You are right, "sandbox mode" is barely used within the game. According to the its base-language.txt file (from Alpha 35), the term "sandbox" is only used in the tooltip of the "Unlimited Funds" option ("Pure Sandbox Mode! You can spend as much money as you like right from the start, without having to worry or wait for more later.").
- I'm not sure whether you are right or not with it actually not being a sandbox mode. The Failure Conditions (there are no Winning Conditions in there) are optional, and so are other parameters of the world, including the unlimited funds option. Is it only to be considered to be a sandbox mode if you have the latter option activated and cannot fail at all? I don't know.
- But I am convinced that version 1.0 will bring the campaigns (as hinted in the Alpha and third-party videos and the game sprites, confirmed in some Gamescom interviews). And as soon as they are there, we will have to distinguish between the campaigns and the sandbox mode, free mode or whatever it is called. Maybe version 1.0 will bring an official terminology, but they might as well just stick with the "Create New Game" button next to the "Start campaign" one. Do you have a proposal how to refer to non-campaign games? --YMS (talk) 14:39, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
- I think we should make Create new prison an article, no redirect. Because it's the starting point in the game. You're right, probably there will be some changes in the menu regarding campaigns. But I think we should only use a structure like it's in the game. If there's no point to directly select a sandbox mode, then it should be at most a redirect to an article with a direct relation to the game (like create new prison). Therein could be a chapter explaining which options to choose to have the game being in sandbox mode. When the new release has a campaign mode, then we should make an separate article for it. I already made an infobox placing belonging articles into the right category. (I hope my scribbling is understandable^^) --TiRARdisk 09:41, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
- You mean in image descriptions like File:Tree_stump_a36.png? I think (blue) links there are helping, as Special:WhatLinksHere is a good way to find images of a certain thing then, given especially the fact that we do have multiple images of many things alone due to the limitation that every new revision of an image needs to create a new file here. For red links, of course, this is not as practical (Special:WhatLinksHere could still be used, but it's getting a bit hacky here). But this would change if we create articles for those items, or (in cases like the Tree Stump, where nothing really is to say about them) at least redirects to e.g. Items. What do you think about such redirects? They would be especially handy for contraband items and guard weapons. I'm sure quite some people will look for a Tazer article, for example (or Jail Keys, Wooden Pickaxe, Dummy, etc.). Currently they have to rely on the full-text search, such redirects would directly need them to the right page. And we would get rid of the red links ;). --YMS (talk) 08:26, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
- I fully agree with redirects for tazer or jail key etc. It's easier to find with redirects. We should do it like that. But I'm not quite sure what do you mean with the Special:WhatLinksHere thing. You mean, if I would search for images of a tree stump, then they all (every uploaded version) will be listed in the Special:WhatLinksHere of the article tree stump? Well, that's right, but what is it good for? I don't know, but this list could get confusing and I guess this increases the risk that someone will use old images from previous versions, doesn't it? Wouldn't it be better to tag old images with the delete-template (if they are obsolete and not linked anymore) to get rid of them? Especially when dealing with other languages. Many translated pages have different images right now. I think that it's hard to ensure, that everyone uses the recent version of an image. --TiRARdisk 10:09, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
- "What is it good for?" For images that are alternatives, not just outdated versions: Maybe someone wants to use another image in some other article, then they can find suitable images this way.
- For outdated images: Yes, as I doubt that there will be much need for historical images, tagging them as "Delete" would be better, if someone would actually delete it then. The last admin action here was in 2013, though hundreds of pages are tagged to delete currently. Maybe they will come back to the wiki once the game is released and this will work out, but maybe they won't. They also could properly activate the already installed translation extension that could much of the work you are doing (though impressive nonetheless!) obsolete or at least much easier and get rid of the last problem you're mentioning. --YMS (talk) 10:57, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
- Oh yes, that's verily right. The extension (that is already activated) would have made things much more easier. I'm not really happy with the current solution, but this increasing chaos had to be cleaned up ^^. Well, although I don't think that links in the file section are necessary and that too many links in the whatlinkshere make more confusion, I guess it won't hurt anyone to have them there. The only thing I'm worried about are the redlinks. I saw it in many other wikis; redlinks animate people to write new articles rather than looking, if they're necessary at all. So I think we should have at least redirects for each redlink as you said. --TiRARdisk 12:21, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
- I can create the redirects for items and contraband later today (if nobody opposes ;)). --YMS (talk) 12:32, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
- Created redirects for all contraband and items, linked them nearly everywhere they are mentioned, fixed some other red links. Now, the only real links to non-existing English articles are for the Prisoner Bus, plus one for sounds.dat (and then the ones in User:TiRAR/Templates/Template:Footer Inmates). --YMS (talk) 20:23, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
- Oh yes, that was a template I prepared for the prisoners. But it doesn't match the article so I'll take it off. I thought about what you said about the work I did and you're maybe right. It does not make any sense to go any further with it before any statement about how to deal with translations is made by the admins. So I will suspend my work on the translations until further. --TiRARdisk 21:26, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
Hey YMS, great work reverting the spam edits. It looked like a bot rapidly editing the same page repeatedly. Any news about requiring registration to make edits? I think this'll only become a more common problem unless we get the Dev's attention somehow. --Mythsnlore (talk) 15:57, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
- I actually think it were two (or maybe even three) different spambots. But as you saw on http://forums.introversion.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=55315, the devs already disallowed anonymous editing, which, as registering wiki accounts requires registering the game, should effectively stop spam completely. --YMS (talk) 16:48, 1 October 2015 (UTC)